INTERVIEW: ANTOINE LIE, PERFUMER (PART II)

You recently wrote on Instagram that synthetic perfume ingredients and naturals aren’t opposed, but rather a perfumer uses them together to create something emotional. Can you say more about this? How do synthetics help your compositions?

ANTOINE: There’s a debate right now between naturals and synthetics. When I worked with Comme des Garçons in the 2000s, I was much more into this phase of industrial, weird, unexpected smells, things that don’t necessarily smell “right.” That was their philosophy. I used a lot of synthetics at the time, like 80% synthetics most of the time for their formulations.

Then you have people who are into all naturals, because they think synthetics are not good and are even unsafe. But I challenge you to make a 100% natural perfume, with only oils found in nature. If you use only oils, absolutes / resinoids—  creating something harmonious is very difficult. It will be harsh, more like aromatherapy. You have to balance both naturals and synthetics to get what you want. It is the duty of the perfumer to know the correct ratio of synthetics and naturals, to deliver the desired olfactive message.

If you look at the old fragrances, Shalimar without vanillin or coumarin wouldn’t be the same. But if you remove the synthetics, you might say it still smells like Shalimar. Chanel’s Jacques Polge has said that everyone says aldehydes changed perfumery because of its overdose in Chanel No. 5, but he says that if you remove aldehydes, it still smells like Chanel 5.

In other words, I think that synthetics help to emphasize naturals, to make naturals more beautiful, rather than the other way around. 

Think of it this way: If the naturals in a perfume are a painting, synthetics would be the quality of the frame, if it’s hung at the right height, the quality of lighting in the room, all of which help to reveal the beauty of painting. The painting without all that might still be beautiful, but with the right frame, placement, and light, you see the painting in its real dimension.

Right now, I use synthetics to polish the signature of the fragrance, essentially made with naturals. Perfumers go through stages, and that’s where I am now. I was into weird synthetic accords in the 2000s, but I’m in love with naturals again. We need to revive them and to put them at the front of the stage. They have so much to say. Associated with the right synthetics, you will emphasize their beauty, adjusting the right level of “asperity” you need. [Ed note: “Asperity” is something like spikiness, texture, sharpness.]

You’ve mentioned emotion several times as an important part of perfume-making to you. How does a perfumer create emotion through scent? What does that mean to you? 

There is a repertoire in my head. I classify raw materials through different emotions, and then colors and textures. I’m very tactile and visual. So, when I smell an ingredient, it triggers colors and textures. Soft, rough, liquid, gas, light. When I try to make a special emotion, for example happiness, I ask myself, what color is it for me? What texture?

Happiness is light, joyful, colorful. I would use ingredients in my repertoire typical of this description, and put a big dosage of them in the composition so that they take over the signature and transmit the emotion I want to give to people wearing it. That’s how I work. 

An ingredient always gives a sort of emotion. It’s more like a coloration, texture, and then, it’s personal how I put together all these ingredients to convey this emotion. Like a filmmaker through visuals. Is it inviting, scary, warm, cold? The director works with lights, decoration; my tools are the raw materials. It’s how I put them together that creates a living image or drawing. 

What is something about you that might surprise your fans? Based on some of the fragrances you’re famous —or infamous—for?

ANTOINE: I used to go pretty far in my creations, and I experimented with strange or unusual accords, so people might think that I’m a weirdo, or that I have an underground and unconventional way of life. 

But I have a very conventional life living with my wife, I have three (grown up) kids, I live in the center of Paris in a Haussmannian apartment — but that doesn’t mean I think like a bourgeois. On the contrary, I prefer to stay in contact with real people and real life. It’s very inspiring, actually. I don’t need to travel to see beautiful landscapes for that. Life around us is a full spectrum of inspiration. 

Do you read articles about yourself and reviews of your perfumes? If so, what are your thoughts? 

ANTOINE: Yes, of course. I don’t search or look for them, but I’ve read articles on my fragrances. 

I’m generally surprised, in a good way. There are often good articles in my favor, that say I have a different vision as a perfumer, that I have a unique way of thinking, that I take risks. But I also read one critical article that said I was an imposter, a fake. This one made me laugh because this is exactly what I am fighting against. I am ready to hear a lot of critiques about me and my work, but this...WTF. You know, I also read so many things about [État Libre d’Orange] Sécrétions Magnifiques years ago, which were very critical and violent, so I’m used to it.

How do you define niche perfume?

ANTOINE: Niche fragrances are for people who want a real signature from a perfume generally made with high-quality ingredients. What’s most important is what is inside the bottle. People increasingly realize that these qualities don’t come from mainstream brands, but from small or niche brands, or from specific collections mainstream brands are doing on the side. But there’s confusion in their positioning here. Mainstream brands are reserving their upscale fragrances for their niche projects, but what does that say about the quality of their mainstream fragrances? Innovation will continue to come from small brands, and then the big brands, when noticing their potential growth, will want to buy them.  

How has the perfume industry changed since you became a perfumer? What do you see as its future? 

ANTOINE: Since I was a teenager, I always wanted to become a perfumer. It was a dream, and the dream became a reality for me. At the end of a period of transition—the 90’s—mainstream perfumery shifted into a more industrial perfumery that became more and more pragmatic and analytical. This dream slowly became more like a scary fairy tale. Fortunately, niche perfumery and independence give me hope to dream again. How I see the future is very simple: Either we drastically change the way fragrances are developed, by putting a real development team, led by conscientious perfumers, back in the center of projects, or nothing changes, and in ten or 15 years, perfumers will be mostly replaced by AI (artificial intelligence) formulators monitored by some star perfumers for the still very unchallenged Almighty Marketing machine.